As we reported a few days ago, the team at
Tom's Hardware ran some
tests on laptops powered by Intel's Core Duo, and found some puzzling results: a mystery power drain that seemed
unconnected to the processor itself. Now they think they've found the answer, and it turns out that Intel is in the
clear: the source of the power glitch is a bug in Microsoft's Advanced Configuration and Power Interface driver, which
can cause Core Duo-powered laptops to rapidly run out of juice if they've got any USB 2.0 devices connected to them.
The solution? Well, actually there isn't one yet. Although Microsoft has known about the driver bug since last July,
the company has yet to release a patch. Meanwhile, Intel is working on its own fix, so chances are the problem will be
resolved in the near future. In the meantime, if you find your brand-spanking-new Core Duo laptop running out of juice
quicker than you thought it would, you'll know who to blame.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mo Salam @ Jan 29th 2006 10:33AM
unless uve got an MacPook Pro :)
Mike McLin @ Jan 29th 2006 10:35AM
Sabotage... I love it.
How come about 5% of the computing population are on Macs, but about 80% of the Engadget computer stories are on Macs? I guess because that 5% of Mac users is a very active and vocal group.
Sean @ Jan 29th 2006 10:44AM
Microsoft has known about this since last July and hasn't fixed the problem?! Why do people keep trusting MS? On the flip side I'm glad to hear its a Windows issue and this doesn't affect the new Duo Macs.
Weegee @ Jan 29th 2006 11:04AM
#2
You do know that MacBook Pros aren't the only ones with Intel Dual Cores right? This story didn't even mention Apple.
Bobgorila @ Jan 29th 2006 11:07AM
~90% of all computer users are running windows, but what percentage of them do you think are geeky enough to read engadget?
I remember back in ~1998 when macs accounted for about a third of all web traffic, I guess the average mac user is just more tech-savvy.
lunarcade @ Jan 29th 2006 11:13AM
Mike,
Personally I hear enough depressing Microsoft news like this everywhere I turn. Its nice to hear some good computer news every once in a while, if that good news comes mostly from Apple products.... Well what does that tell you? Kinda makes me want to own a Mac in addition to all my Windows machines.
Alexander @ Jan 29th 2006 11:15AM
Does anybody know if this 'bug' affects Linux? If it truly is a driver issue, then I can't think of a better reason to get people to switch away from Microsoft and their giant-corporate shenanigans.
Jumi @ Jan 29th 2006 11:16AM
To Mike McLin (#2)
Sabotage? By whom? Microsoft, of its customer's laptops? What does this have to do with Macs, other than the not mentioned fact that this doesn't affect them, as they don't (duh!) use Microsoft USB drivers in the Macbook Pro.
This is not a Mac story, but one about MS either being incompentent or not giving a da*m about their users.
John @ Jan 29th 2006 11:27AM
I would think this just points to a small teensy issue of why MS could care less about their customers. After all, people don't generally buy directly from MS anyhow - they get their SW through a Dell, etc... Now if Michael Dell stepped up and asked for it to be fixed, then, yeah, I could imagine MS caring.
(ahh, it feels so good to bash MS in the morning...)
Mr. B @ Jan 29th 2006 11:34AM
"I guess the average mac user is just more tech-savvy."
That's debatable.
Echo_ @ Jan 29th 2006 11:40AM
i love apple fanboys they are so smart
considering
90% dont know how a computer works
95% of mac users believe steve jobs is the reincarnation of jesus
99% think the ipod was the greatest invention in the history of the milky way galaxy
Bill Grove @ Jan 29th 2006 11:57AM
No. The average Mac user is NOT tech saavy. FAR from it. The average Mac user prefers to stay completely clear of any computer knowledge. They devote their time to using the Mac, not learning about it. That's not bad, and I'm not saying the average PC user is any better, but in my experience the Mac crowd is pretty computer ignorant.
Neb @ Jan 29th 2006 12:00PM
Well that really does prove the advert right, the intel chip does a hell of a lot more in a Mac than it ever did for a PC, they just forgot to mention the bit about it being literal.
ken fager @ Jan 29th 2006 12:04PM
Hey #1. That MacPook would make a great Keeping it Fake article.
Heh... MacPook. Almost sounds racist.
JBaxt @ Jan 29th 2006 12:08PM
I am a newly converted mac person, and i always no the hardware, and know everything about the actual computer. However when my new imac arrived, it worked so seamlessly and perfectly that i felt that there was no reason for me to try to understand why. With no windows, there isn't a reason to learn how to fix your computer, because it never needs fixing.
syadasti @ Jan 29th 2006 12:18PM
Looks like Engadget/Tom's Hardware doesn't do their homework (WHAT A SURPRISE!). This fix has been available since at least late September:
"Computers that are running Windows XP Service Pack 2 and that are equipped with multiple processors that support processor power management features may experience decreased performance"
http://support.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?id=896256
This hotfix also addresses the following issues on computers that have multiple processors that support processor performance states:
• A possible decrease in performance on single-threaded workloads when processor performance states are using demand-based switching.
• The synchronization of the processor Time Stamp Counter (TSC) registers across processors when you use the ACPI Power Management timer on multiprocessor systems.
• ACPI C-state promotion and demotion issues in the kernel power manager.
The key thing here is:
"Correct C-state promotion and demotion
This change corrects issues in the kernel power manager to correctly handle processor ACPI C-state promotion and demotion on multiprocessor systems."
Correct C-state is very import, it allows more efficient low-power ACPI states.
I can't find the place I first saw this posted, but it was posted on AMDzone 10/9/2005:
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3964
Bruce @ Jan 29th 2006 12:26PM
The problem is with the Intel chipset, not the driver.
Every other Intel chipset works fine.
Andy Scott @ Jan 29th 2006 12:33PM
Has a Core Duo even hit the market yet? This does stink a little bit of trying to push incompetence onto Windows. Given the fact that XP supports about 1,000 chipsets, a flaw in a pre-release, and probably old standard Windows XP driver is unsurprising.
An important thing to not that Intel is the one pointing the finger, at a speculative issue. It's language strangely defensive, and perhaps a little bit careless for their old flame Microsoft. There is something very weird about the fact it's a dual-core exclusive issue.
The KB article is actually confidential, so there's no way of knowing if it's fixed yet. Just that both parties are aware of the problem. The reason this hasnt been prior knowledge would be that this may have conflicted with Intel's announcement schedule.
As for Mac users being more tech-savvy, why is it that only about 5% of all hardware developed will work on the platform. I know plenty of Mac users who curse and blind everytime they find out a product doesnt work. That's not savvy, that's brand loyalty.
On the whole, the most tech-savvy people are not monogamous. Mac OS X is just about the only iteration since Windows 3.11 that you can make an argument of superiority. The 1/3 of the net figure is quite hilarious, do you have a statistic analysis for that? The only explanation I could possibly think of, is the Mac heavy design industry moving from ISDN to the 'net, even that.....
As for Engadget, we get the fact you like Macs. We get the fact you use them, and probably think they're better than PCs. It doesn't mean we agree, so is it possible you'll ease up on the Mac-centric slant?
gib786 @ Jan 29th 2006 12:54PM
love apple fanboys they are so smart
considering
90% dont know how a computer works
95% of mac users believe steve jobs is the reincarnation of jesus
99% think the ipod was the greatest invention in the history of the milky way galaxy
agreed
syadasti @ Jan 29th 2006 1:03PM
Just noticed from the AMDzone page, the C-state ACPI fix was added at the end of June 2005 from the file date (and that might even been patch version v2). Just growing pains of adding new technology (dual core CPUs) to an older OS which was designed before they were available. I bet it was fixed, Toms should retest with the patch.
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3964
furtim @ Jan 29th 2006 1:07PM
Pardon my French, but where in the holy fuck did the Engadget post mention Macs?
Oh, yeah. NOWHERE!
All you Dell marketing shills in the comments (I'm assuming you're getting paid because the possibility that you're just so completely off your rockers that you have nothing better to do than accuse Engadget of Mac bias on a story that *DOES NOT MENTION MACS* is too frightening) please go home and find a productive way to earn a paycheck.
synapse @ Jan 29th 2006 1:09PM
Load the intel driver in place of the MS driver???
I was extremely happy with the drivers in XP x64 on my acer 3400lmi(ferrari)
joe @ Jan 29th 2006 1:22PM
I would like to second #14. As a recent mac migrant, I have found it pretty trouble free.
As for my tech abilities, they don't exist, and I don't have time to be constantly fiddling with my computer.
On my PC, everything was in a delicate balance that could be thrown off at anytime.
Macs on the other hand are more foolproof. It is much more diffucult to really screw things up
iomatic @ Jan 29th 2006 1:31PM
I love those random stats! Another ignorant troll pulls them out of their ass.
So, The Point Is: Microsoft sucks. They can't get the user experience right for the life of them. But no, Mac users are sandal-wearing Jobs-worshippers who don't chase down obscure drivers!
Sheesh. Ignorant apologists on the PC camp appear worse than the apologists on the self-righteous Mac camp.
Benson Leung @ Jan 29th 2006 1:33PM
As a tech-saavy Mac user with a degree in computer science and computer engineering and working in the industry today, I have to take offense to all of the Mac user hating on the comments here... and to all of you labeling mac users ignorant. I probably have a deeper understanding of systems than most of you wannabe experts using Windows.
You can have idiots and experts on both sides of the isle... the Mac isn't somehow completely anti-geek... its unix nature make it VERY geek, if you choose to look at it that way, and that's the type of person I am. Conversely, Windows can be completely geek, but also completely pedestrian... think about your computer illiterate grandma who uses Windows. She's somehow geeky because she's on the Windows platform? so you're not somehow inherently more |337 that someone else because you use Mac or Windows... Some of the most knowledgeable computer people I know with all around knowledge of all systems have been Mac users... and also Linux people, and also Windows.
read the damn article. Heck, do a search for "Mac" on this page, and you'll find that nowhere did it mention the Mac, except in the comments... so I don't think that Engadget is biased toward mac at all.
matt @ Jan 29th 2006 1:37PM
"18. Has a Core Duo even hit the market yet?"
Yes. I am typgint his message on one right now.
Adam @ Jan 29th 2006 1:37PM
I hate Mac fans,
Tell them you use windows instead of a mac...and oh no, you're the worst sinner of all time on the history of this earth.
Why can't I have my own opinon. Out of all the fanboys on different things, mac fans are the most iggnorant bunch of tossheads in the world.
Glenn @ Jan 29th 2006 1:51PM
I've owned 2 Mac's and had hardware problems with both. My emac video went out 10 days after the warranty period and Apple wanted me to pay to have it repaired even though it was a known issue! My ibooks harddrive failed so I had to send it in for repair because there is no harddrive access cover like the is on a PC laptop. Mac's are NOT so trouble free. On the other hand I've owned countless PC's and have had only minor issues. You can replace parts in a PC very cheaply, and are available EVERYWHERE. Not so with a mac. Parts are very expensive and hard to replace. Try taking a new imac, ibook, mac mini apartGood Luck. You can keep you mac. Ill never buy one again.
Glenn @ Jan 29th 2006 1:52PM
I've owned 2 Mac's and had hardware problems with both. My emac video went out 10 days after the warranty period and Apple wanted me to pay to have it repaired even though it was a known issue! My ibooks harddrive failed so I had to send it in for repair because there is no harddrive access cover like the is on a PC laptop. Mac's are NOT so trouble free. On the other hand I've owned countless PC's and have had only minor issues. You can replace parts in a PC very cheaply, and are available EVERYWHERE. Not so with a mac. Parts are very expensive and hard to replace. Try taking a new imac, ibook, mac mini apartGood Luck. You can keep you mac. Ill never buy one again.
Razor @ Jan 29th 2006 2:04PM
I, James Manning, am a troll: james.manning@mchsi.com
Robert @ Jan 29th 2006 2:17PM
Well I managed to get through all of your comments on the duo core problem. Pretty uninspiring reading, but I expect I will excuse all of you, with the exception of #25 Benson Leung. He claims to have a degree of some sort, that makes him a geek according to his definition of geekiness. My problem with this is if someone has any kind of advanced education that has been completed and awarded with a degree I personally would expect a vocabulary that might include somewhat more imaginative or refined language than "damn" or "illiterate grandma" or even the illusive "wannabee". People, get a life. Robert
3rdsun @ Jan 29th 2006 2:28PM
I love these Mac vs Windows debates. Anywhos if Mac was more open to different hardware and software upgrades it would be possible for it to have a few glitches. Windows supports many more pieces of hardware than Mac, and most third party software installed on a windows system isnt even signed by MS. There lies most of the problems. If we could all operate in a closed off "communist" state like apple the world would be a better place.
Raider @ Jan 29th 2006 3:11PM
Acer and some other company has Core Duos out on shelves already. Apple's iMac, even though not a laptop, is already out with a Core Duo inside.
Now..
i love apple fanboys they are so smart
considering
90% dont know how a computer works - nothing more than 10 minutes of reading can change. > howstuffworks.com
95% of mac users believe steve jobs is the reincarnation of jesus - not really, but he is the single most important factor in Apple. When he leaves again, Apple might just go down hill. I know I'll get some flak for this, but both Jobs and Jesus are overrated.
99% think the ipod was the greatest invention in the history of the milky way galaxy - think that belongs to computers themselves, sliced bread, the automobile, and for lonely people as yourself - porn.
Julie Chadwick @ Jan 29th 2006 3:14PM
You mean MS knew about a bug for six months and didn't release a patch?! No way! But seriously, six months ago, there weren't any Core Duo processors out there for them to worry about, and the one that Tom got for review doesn't really count. It's something that should be fixed ASAP, but it made no business sense for them to fix this one last summer.
Benson Leung @ Jan 29th 2006 3:14PM
#30. Just because I have a college education doesn't mean that I don't get pissed off when people make vast generalizations, and doesn't preclude me from using language that people will understand.
If you want me to use language that is more fitting, then I could go and start a discussion of the technical details of this problem... since I work specifically on power management + Microsoft OSes + Intel silicon... but that's not the focus of this comment thread.
Half the comments here aren't about the Core Duo here, but for people lobbing insults back and forth about Mac Vs. Windows... that is completely irrelevant to this discussion, yet is the most flameworthy topic.
I'll refine my point of view on this... i think the mac fans who post here shouldn't have posted in the first place because the topic didn't have anything to do with Mac... all of the windows fanboys should learn to be less reactionary and to be more flame-resistant. There's no reason to turn every thread into a flamewar.
Back to the topic at hand, since you somehow want me to prove that i am who I say I am...
As to " In the meantime, if you find your brand-spanking-new Core Duo laptop running out of juice quicker than you thought it would, you'll know who to blame."
I wouldn't be so quick to blame Microsoft for this problem. While it certainly seems like the problem might be Microsoft's ACPI driver not behaving to spec, such a thing as battery life with a particular OS should be something that is tested by multiple parties before a product is put out... Intel should be testing this on the development boards (with Windows) before they send them to OEMs... OEMs should be testing their laptops before they are put into production and sent to the public.
The fact that the problem got all the way to the consumer and wasn't caught along the way and a resolution figured out with Microsoft suggests to me a failure on many parties fault... validation at Microsoft, Intel, and the OEMs.
Mud on everyone's faces right now... but this is business as usual.
illingist trooper @ Jan 29th 2006 3:17PM
Heh, "Windows" fans, Apple haters.
Always so vitriolic! (Is that an acceptable word for you, Robert? oh, here: www.dictionary.com)
I'm a Mac guy. Almost anyone who uses a Mac is using it because they want to - it's almost always a path you choose yourself, not one that your IT guys pick for you, or your boss makes you use. You use a Mac because you are hoping for a better computing experience. I feel I get just that; others' mileage may vary.
If you really want to disparage the Mac and its small percentage of the market, count all of the Windows PCs used in Service bays at Pep Boys and Sears, inventory departments at OldNavy and WalMart, and what your Dad bought himself becuase it was cheap and lump that in with all of your 'L33tness, windows fans. Because that's a big amount of your overwhelming marketshare - mindeless lowest-common denominator computing.
It's not always "HOW MANY use it," Sometimes it's "WHO uses it."
Mike McLin @ Jan 29th 2006 3:19PM
WHOA SORRY!!! I screwed up (I was post #2). I saw Core Duo, and assumed Mac, since Engadget has been talking about the Intel Macs so much. I was completely wrong.
But honestly there are a lot of Mac stories on here...
mike @ Jan 29th 2006 3:42PM
Why can't I have my own opinon. Out of all the fanboys on different things, mac fans are the most iggnorant bunch of tossheads in the world.
---
I wish you DID have your own opinion. Instead you just sit there playing Half Life 2 .. and pretend you picked up that virus-ridden POS for objective logical reasons.
Wait a sec, did you even pay for your PC yourself.. or do you live with mom?
Ian @ Jan 29th 2006 3:45PM
What? Toms hardware got it wrong? NO WAY! I remember when the first divx codec showed up (before the divx we know now) and Toms raved about it, completely clueless that it was a hack on the MS MPEG4V2 codec.
Toms rides on the perception that Germans are uber tech gods and rely on all of you to swallow their poorly researched articles based purely on that.
Dave Coulier @ Jan 29th 2006 4:41PM
............I, for one, welcome our new fanboy overlords.
Desides @ Jan 29th 2006 5:42PM
"But honestly there are a lot of Mac stories on here..."
Perhaps because Apple has been in the news quite a bit since they announced the switch to Intel? Don't blame Engadget for merely relaying others' headlines. If you don't like it, don't read or comment on the Apple stories. Problem solved.
I prefer hearing about Apple to the typical flood of cell phone stories...
Reg Muffet @ Jan 29th 2006 6:00PM
As both an atheist and a 50/50 Windows/Mac user and iPod owner, I can tell you that Steve Jobs has far more impact on my life than Jesus!
But don't start a religious genocide over it, we've had enough of those.
Reg Muffet @ Jan 29th 2006 6:03PM
> I prefer hearing about Apple to the typical flood of cell phone stories...
Man, did you say the truth there!
Catfood @ Jan 29th 2006 8:11PM
This comment thread is an example of why I don't read Engadget.
Jon H @ Jan 29th 2006 8:47PM
"But honestly there are a lot of Mac stories on here..."
Well, that's only because Apple's been doing more interesting things that Microsoft. Microsoft's only significant release lately has been the XBox 360, which got plenty of coverage. Too bad Microsoft botched the release. They won't have a new OS upgrade out until the end of the year - maybe.
Apple, on the other hand, has been more newsworthy. They just released their first Intel computers. They frequently release new iPods, or add new content to the iTunes store. The month started with MacWorld, and all the attendant rumors and announcements and follow up interest. The recent Disney/Pixar merger also gets into Apple news.
PC clone makers aren't terribly newsworthy, because there's nothing all that interesting about a given manufacturer's new offerings. "PC maker ships new PC" is very much a "dog bites man" story, and as such only gets a brief mention covering the specs of the new machine and if possible the price.
So it should come as no surprise that Apple seems to be a constant presence. That'll probably continue through the spring. February will have stories as the Mac Book Pro starts shipping and being reviewed. March will probably have stories about the conjectured April 1 releases. If they happen, April will have lots of news about them. You can also expect a spate of news around mid-year due to Apple's worldwide developer conference.
This may be a relatively Apple-heavy news year, with them moving the product line to Intel and releasing 10.5 around the end of the year. Next year it'll probably slow down a bit, and you won't have to deal with so much Apple news. Plus, at the end of 2006 there'll be lots of news about Vista, or lots of news about Vista being delayed.
Jon H @ Jan 29th 2006 8:48PM
"But honestly there are a lot of Mac stories on here..."
Well, that's only because Apple's been doing more interesting things that Microsoft. Microsoft's only significant release lately has been the XBox 360, which got plenty of coverage. Too bad Microsoft botched the release. They won't have a new OS upgrade out until the end of the year - maybe.
Apple, on the other hand, has been more newsworthy. They just released their first Intel computers. They frequently release new iPods, or add new content to the iTunes store. The month started with MacWorld, and all the attendant rumors and announcements and follow up interest. The recent Disney/Pixar merger also gets into Apple news.
PC clone makers aren't terribly newsworthy, because there's nothing all that interesting about a given manufacturer's new offerings. "PC maker ships new PC" is very much a "dog bites man" story, and as such only gets a brief mention covering the specs of the new machine and if possible the price.
So it should come as no surprise that Apple seems to be a constant presence. That'll probably continue through the spring. February will have stories as the Mac Book Pro starts shipping and being reviewed. March will probably have stories about the conjectured April 1 releases. If they happen, April will have lots of news about them. You can also expect a spate of news around mid-year due to Apple's worldwide developer conference.
This may be a relatively Apple-heavy news year, with them moving the product line to Intel and releasing 10.5 around the end of the year. Next year it'll probably slow down a bit, and you won't have to deal with so much Apple news. Plus, at the end of 2006 there'll be lots of news about Vista, or lots of news about Vista being delayed.
Bleah @ Jan 29th 2006 9:49PM
OH GOD! MICROSOFT BUG! ABANDON SHIP !!! ABANDON SHIP! !! for christs sake people...it is going to take a LOT more than something this freaking small to make everyone switch.
"If it truly is a driver issue, then I can't think of a better reason to get people to switch away from Microsoft and their giant-corporate shenanigans."
Well, good thing you aren't in charge of Apple's advertising...
pag @ Jan 29th 2006 10:17PM
A few topics to sum up some of the things (in my opinion) people got right:
- People that use macs use them because they want and because they can. They arent cheap, pcs are. (i would love to have a shinny powerbook, but i cant afford it)
- Macs achieved cult status. They have their pros but also their cons. The mac owners i know cant really pinpoint many advantages over windows pcs, most windows users i know cant do the opposite either. "i hate windows", "macs suck", easy things to say.
- Macs run with less problems because they are more closed to outside intervention. Almost proprietary technology. Microsoft has to deal with thousands of hardware parts and their corresponding drivers. Flexibility has costs, lack of it, also does (more expensive hardware for macs).
- I have an ibook and a windows laptop. Both had problems - the mac burned the motherboard, which was, so i read, a common problem on that ibook model, and which destroyed the screen and several other parts. Luckily apple replaced it for free (admitted the fault). Before submitting the ibook for repair, i had to clear the hd, sensitive information. Opening an ibook was my most ambitious project ever, either i would have to pay $80+ to a tec to do it or do it myself in 5 hours, with a 20 page manual beside me. 5 hours + manual it was. My windows laptop hd burned out, i replaced it in 30 seconds.
- Mac users i know arent very tech savvy, mostly because they dont have to, they dont need to, and also because they dont want to. Notice the "i know" part, no flames. Windows pc users can have the same excuses, but not as well backed up by evidence.
- #45, you just did, and i am glad you did, we all learn more, even reading what we say we dont. ;-)
- Geeks are everywhere, macs, windows, linux, public restrooms. Mostly on windows and linux, mainly because the tools of the trade are more present there.
- Windows/linux is more flexible. More possible to go down the layers of computing prowess.
- Degrees dont count for geekness. Actually, in my book, degrees dont count for much of anything, i prefer experience and expertise, which, unfortunately, are highly underrated where i come from. (and yes, we can be smart with a mac or with a windows pc)
I use windows mostly, my girlfriend uses a mac. And i myself love macs, but prefer windows pcs for work. Whats so wrong about that? :-)
Thought of the week: Dont generalize, both worlds are valid and can co-exist.
crzdmn @ Jan 29th 2006 11:22PM
Doesn't anyone get it? Microsoft makes it easier for people who have no pc to get a pc. They produce their operating system on cheaper systems than mac. Which should i buy to surf the net? A 1500 dollar mac or a 450 dollar pc? End of story.
bradtomlinson @ Jan 30th 2006 1:09AM
"27. I hate Mac fans"
Well I can't say that I hate windows fans/users. Because I find that when a "windows user" sees my Mac at home or my iBook, they get interested, ask me questions and I let them play with it and very soon they are asking me which Apple Store they should buy their first mac from.
This includes the "hardcore" users that have criticised me for using OS X.
My experience level isn't only with a Mac:
Windows(all): Guru
OS X : Experienced
Linux : Moderate
So most of what I know is focused on Windows, since it was the first thing I ever learned and yet I don't use it. Why do you think that is hardcore Windows people?